Expanding The Bird's Nest to All Pontiacs??? Thoughts?

Traffic is awefully slow here and elsewhere on the web these days. 

In order to spur more activity, I'm leaning heavily towards expanding into having more Pontiacs on here.

What does everyone think?

Yes, The Pioneer Valley GTO club could use a message board.

Good idea Al.

I second the motion of integrating some Goats. 

Goats?  I thought you meant Aztecs.

I don't know Al. You're really lowering the standards allowing contraptions like that in. I'm having a hard time accepting "anything" with a computer on board. The LS motored 4th Gens I could stomach, but that's about it. (IMO)

That Aztec just does not seem to be a Pontiac inspired theme.  Neither does the G5, G6 and G-Whatever.  But you have a point, it does have an arrowhead.  Pontiac used to make the Safaris way back when so I guess it's not all Trans Ams, Grand Prix's, and Goats. 

I think we should let Camaros in personally.

Steve wrote:That Aztec just does not seem to be a Pontiac inspired theme.  Neither does the G5, G6 and G-Whatever.  But you have a point, it does have an arrowhead.  Pontiac used to make the Safaris way back when so I guess it's not all Trans Ams, Grand Prix's, and Goats. 

I think we should let Camaros in personally.

NOOO!!! Not the "C" word! (That was just a bad joke...right Steve?)

The Aztek was all Poncho design team... look at the prototype stuff from the late 80's.. it was taken from 2 different themes.

Yes, the C word.  I am going full out cussin' here.

Camaro
Super Sport
Berlinetta
Z28!!!!!!

Too many Ca-ME-ro Sites out there already... LOL

Al, "please" tell me Steve is just busting us. 

I think we need to be tolerant of other makes, creeds, and models.  After all, Firebirds and Camaros were made side by side on the same assembly line.  I don't see how you love a '76 Firebird but hate a '78 Camaro.

Besides, its not like I said Mustangs.  Camaros are cooler than Aztecs.

Oh God No... I can take the Aztek up to VT loaded with camping gear and Kayaks and enjoy a nice refreshing weekend with the wife in comfort.. ...the only thing I'd get out of a '78 Camaro is people trying to sell me Meth, thumbs up from the trailer park, and bar hags looking for a ride... LOL!

In all seriousness, I'm very open to opening up to other Pontiacs, but there are a lot of Camaro sites... a lot. Not so many Pontiac sites... several forums I frequent are multi-GM product sites..
 but Pontiac's are lost in the mix... common theme is yank the engine and drop in a SBC with zero Pontiac knowledge or heritage... again, plenty of Cheby/Camaro sites.

The last Pontiac to see use in an F-Body was the shameful '82-'84 Iron Duke I4 Birds and Camaros...  '82-up Pontiacs, outside of the Duke, were powered by everything but Pontiacs.... If people visit with non- Pontiacs, its cool, but beyond Pontiac's is, IMHO, just too much for this site to absorb without losing its purpose.

Steve wrote:
Besides, its not like I said Mustangs.  Camaros are cooler than Aztecs.

 Sorry boss, but I'ld take the Mustang, or even Aztec, over the "C" word.
 Call me "abused" if you want, but it goes deeper than just the car. Much deeper.
 But hey, that's just me

Take a 1982 Z28.  Same engines as Trans Am.  Same body shape as a 1982 Trans Am but take the headlight style of the 1977 Trans Am, the center nose section of a '79 Trans Am, and add the front spoiler/side skirts off a 1985 Trans Am and voila...the Z28.  So that leaves the taillights as the only styling queue not used on a Trans Am design.

That must be the power of marketing.  In the early days Firebirds were Camaros with different front and rear ends and a louvered restrike in the quarter panel.  The exception is that they had Pontiac engines.  Beginning in 1970 GM started sneaking Chevy 6 cylinders into Firebirds.  In 1976 they began using Buick V-6s in Firebirds.  In 1978 the Chevy 305s appeared in Firebirds because they couldn't produce enough 301s.  In '79 the Chevy 305 made its way into Trans Ams for California.  In 1980 the Chevy 305 was a staple in Firebirds and by 1981 was the only engine you could get a 4 speed with in a Trans Am. Really what was the difference in the early years of a second gen Camaro and Firebird:  different grilles, different tails, a crease line in Camaero quarters, different belt line heights, and a peak in Firebird fenders, and of couse the engine selections which slowly diverged.

Along comes 1982 and all GM goes to "corporate" engines with Pontiac making the Iron Duke four cylinder, Buick building the V-6, and Chevy building the 305.  Does that make a 1982 Camaro four cylinder cool because it had a Pontiac engine in it? 

I have some dealer documentation that says back in those times GM would allow you to return your Pontiac on a Pro-rated scale if you felt you were deceived about getting a non-Pontiac engine in your Pontiac.  That would disappear in 1982 when all cars were corporate engined cars.

To love a Firebird and hate a Camaro is just a strange concept to me.  I find it impossible to not like Camaros because it has the same lines.  I think you guys might be drinking the marketing kool-aid.

No, honestly no hate here for Camaros, just friendly-rivalry banter... however, adding I firmly believe a "Camaro" section will not help further the purposes of this site.... which is to aid, educate, & entertain folks who prefer their Tin Indians over the other GM marques.

OK guys, let's see if I can simplify this. "Hate" is a very strong 4 letter word, that I prefer not to use. I'll define it this way. The bow-tie eng is something "I choose to ignore". Do I think they're "bad", or any other brand is? No. I know all about their benefits. Do I think the traditional Pontiac eng is superior? Course not. But the recognition the French wall paper logo eng. has contrived since its inception, has led many, "MANY" people and industries to believe just that. That it's superior to all the automotive industry. To me, they're nothing more than cheap, overused, and over glorified piles of cast iron, that have no sense of individualism (?). And I "especially" don't want to see one between the fenders of a Pontiac. When I first became savvy to the internet, I joined a forum called "Hard Core Pontiac". What a joke. They were not my definition of "Hard Core", by far.
So unfortunately I've gotten use to the fact that some people will have an sbc powering their Poncho, and it doesn't mean I will think less of them as a person. But I "will" think less of the car. Sorry, but that's the way my gene pool has been flowing. I understand the need to possibly extend the boundaries of this club, and I hope to be a better contributor in the future. As long as it remains a "Pontiac" club. I hope I haven't offended anyone with what is nothing more than my "opinion".

I don't think it is really possible for me to be become offended by your opinion Joe. It is okay to like what you like. I think it is perfectly okay to like any car. I like my Honda CRV which I do not feel is a good looking car at all but it has 4 wheel drive and doesn't break down. I am not a CRV enthusiast. Most cars are simple utility and few marques have large followings.

I am definitely not hard core Pontiac. I like cars, but not really all cars. Firebirds are my favorite followed closely by Camaro. I also like Ferrari 512, 308, Dinos, and Daytonas. Then come the Lamborghini Countach and Lotus Esprit. C3 Corvettes are a favorite. To be honest I like Can Ams better than GTOs. Fords really aren't on my favorite list but I love the Mad Max style Australian Ford Falcon and the Pantera. I like Plymouth Turismos (because it was my first car) and Baracudas.

Think about this though. There are many sites out there for Camaros but they seem to be frequented by people who like to modify cars, especially the engines. There is nothing wrong with that certainly but the majority of Pontiac guys are restorers and preservationists. A modified Pontiac is usually worth less than a correctly restored version. There is a contingent of Camaro guys who are into the restoration and preservation of that marque. So it might not be so boring to have F body discussions.

Well, by your "favorites" list above Steve, it appears you're a very well rounded individual. I envy you for your enthusiasm and outlook. Where I grew up in Brockton Mass, in the mid 70s of driving, the cult craze was big cube, American V-8s, backed up by a 4 speed, and for some reason I became infatuated with that arena. I started out with a couple GTOs, and then Firebirds, and have remained dedicated to this day. The exotic imports are "interesting" to me, but don't set my blood on fire, like the high torque muscle machines that dominated "my" streets for over 10 yrs. but unfortunately didn't last all that long. Only the memories survive through clubs such as PVFBs. I really hope we can keep these cars alive, because it doesn't appear the generation of today has much interest in them.

I am with you Joe.  I think we are preserving history by preserving our cars.  I am definitely with Al on offering the board to the GTO guys.  I am almost mad at myself that GTOs aren't in my top 10 because the Pioneer Valley GTO Association is a top notch club with some really great people. 

I went to Stonehill College.  I am very familiar with Brockton.  In the 80's I remeber all the spots where you could see a Firebird.

Steve wrote:
I went to Stonehill College.  I am very familiar with Brockton.  In the 80's I remeber all the spots where you could see a Firebird.

 
Stonehill!? How about that Steve. I remember the nice straight away road in frt of it, (Belmont St from Brockton), with the rock wall and the waterfall. I never had the opportunity to go on the grounds, but used to cruise into  Easton all the time. Till this day, I'll never forget witnessing a Motion prepared 69 Nova, big block, 4 spd car, turning onto that same road, full bore and sideways. Very impressive.
 I hope to help out this club we get some interest merging with the GTO chapter. Do you think they'll have us Steve?

Steve wrote:I don't think it is really possible for me to be become offended by your opinion Joe.  It is okay to like what you like.  I think it is perfectly okay to like any car.  I like my Honda CRV which I do not feel is a good looking car at all but it has 4 wheel drive and doesn't break down.  I am not a CRV enthusiast.  Most cars are simple utility and few marques have large followings.  

I am definitely not hard core Pontiac.  I like cars, but not really all cars.  Firebirds are my favorite followed closely by Camaro.  I also like Ferrari 512, 308, Dinos, and Daytonas.  Then come the Lamborghini Countach and Lotus Esprit.  C3 Corvettes are a favorite.  To be honest I like Can Ams better than GTOs.  Fords really aren't on my favorite list but I love the Mad Max style Australian Ford Falcon and the Pantera.  I like Plymouth Turismos (because it was my first car) and Baracudas.

Think about this though.  There are many sites out there for Camaros but they seem to be frequented by people who like to modify cars, especially the engines.  There is nothing wrong with that certainly but the majority of Pontiac guys are restorers and preservationists.  A modified Pontiac is usually worth less than a correctly restored version.  There is a contingent of Camaro guys who are into the restoration and preservation of that marque.  So it might not be so boring to have F body discussions.

I Agree Steve...There are so many Cars that are great. I tend to lean toward GM Muscle, but there are many cool cars out there.. also that are not so cool....

I definitely know that you like a variety of cars Martin.  The Camaro you were looking at was really cool.  When will you have the new black bird out?

Joe, At Stonehill there was a guy when I wnet there that had a radical '70 Camaro custom.  Senior year e traded it for a silver Trans Am and painted it black.  I miss seeing those cars there. 

Al, I think you should offer the board to the Pioneer Valley GTO Association.  They are a top notch club with great members.  Paul Bourbeau is the real deal, a genuine car guy with a real talent for building enthusiasm for cars.  We always show at the PVGTO show in Agawam , scheduled for June 1rst this year.  It would be great to share with them, we can learn alot.